If Margaret Casely-Hayford CBE were to be elected as Oxford’s Chancellor, she would be both the first woman and ethnic minority to rise to the symbolic helm of the University. Her candidacy carries momentous potential but has not been without disparagement, she recognises: “Some people see me as the ‘diversity champion’, the ‘diversity advocate,’ and, to an extent, I don’t really mind that to some it’s meant to be a criticism.”

Speaking to Cherwell, Casely-Hayford touched on her vision for the chancellorship, her experiences as the first black woman to become a partner at a City law firm, and her nomination to join the until recently exclusively male Garrick Club.

In terms of university chancellorships, this would not be Casely-Hayford’s first. She has already served as Chancellor of Coventry University for seven years. Regarding the current crisis facing the higher education sector, with a drop in international student numbers and frozen tuition fees leaving many universities struggling, Casely-Hayford spoke about Oxford’s place in the debate, despite its comparative financial strength:

“Oxford has a fantastic position in being recognised as the best university in the country and the world, so the voice of its leadership really carries an enormous amount of weight and responsibility. The higher education sector is in a really precarious position, it needs now to be championed.

“We’ve spent a lot of time saying, the benefit is earning more: ‘learn more, earn more.’ But it’s more than the benefit to the individual, there’s a huge raft of data required to ensure that people really see the social benefit, the health benefit, the culture benefit, and economic benefits to the country.”

Casely-Hayford stressed the need for iconic institutions, such as Oxford, not to “rest on their laurels”, rather to use their influence in uniting the sector. She reflected on her work as chair of Shakespeare’s Globe during the Covid pandemic:

“We realised that if we talked to government, as a unifying voice on behalf of all of theatre and all the arts, about the importance of the way the arts attract income into the country and benefit the public then that would help the Treasury’s thinking about how we support the arts.

“The government’s Cultural Recovery Fund was launched from our stage at The Globe, I thought that was incredibly symbolic of the fact that we were not being self-serving.”

The chancellorship race has become increasingly politically charged over recent months, with the high-profile candidacies of Labour stalwart Peter Mandelson and former Conservative leader William Hague.

Casely-Hayford, a lawyer by profession, has no such political background. Reflecting on the political character of the race, she said: “I think that the role of chancellor is intended to be a unifying, symbolic, ceremonial one. All of the colleges and halls have their own identity, but the unifying concept is the University.

“For individuals to enter the race who clearly have a political agenda, a political mandate that they push, is unfortunate. I do think, however, that, having a voice, a knowledge of politics and a political astuteness is an integral part of being in the role.”

Casely-Hayford studied Law at Somerville during her undergraduate years, “when it wasn’t co-ed”, she adds. “I just loved my time. I think I was probably far too sociable, but it has meant that I’ve had some amazing enduring friendships and have an incredible network.

“Although people are really collegiate, there’s also this sort of wider blanket of warmth. I really was welcomed, and I didn’t feel outside of anything.”

Casely-Hayford’s career began in the City, where she rose through the ranks at the law firm Dentons, and was the first black woman to be a partner at a City law firm. Reflecting on her experiences in the corporate sector, she said: “I’m so old that when I first started working, women in the City were still a rarity, and being a black woman in the City was like hen’s teeth.

“If I’m honest, it was a lonely position, and it made me tough because I had to be. I had to learn through my experience how to not be that ‘tough guy’ who never leaves the office.

“Women were expected to behave like men, for example, I remember one of my colleagues going off to a meeting when she was about 8 ¾ months pregnant. I just kept thinking, ‘go home and have a rest,’ and she wouldn’t do it because she was expected to go to the wire.

“The City was a tough place, and, gradually, we’ve all learned to be better. The younger generation is fantastic, because they do think about the fact that people need headspace to be able to perform better, and you don’t get headspace if you’re worried, anxious, nervous, or personally minimized.”

In previous interview, Casely-Hayford described her Somerville law tutor Dr Ann de Moor as an inspiration, recalling that de Moor had been “disappointed that I’d become ‘just a City lawyer’, telling me that she had expected more of me because of what I’d said about social justice years before, at my interview.”

Asked by Cherwell whether she had, in hindsight, stayed true to those social justice beliefs she had once held close, Casely-Hayford said: “You probably can hear from what I’ve said that my beliefs haven’t changed!”

She added: “In my interview I had been asked ‘where do you see yourself in ‘x’ number of years, and I said, ‘I want to be secretary general of the United Nations.’ So, when I went back to tell my tutor Ann de Moor that I’d been made a partner at a City law firm, she looked crestfallen and I thought, ‘Oh my goodness, I’ve let Ann down, she had faith and expected more.’

“It was that experience that, in a way, made me throw my hat in the ring to become chair of ActionAid UK, an incredible international development organization that strives to end world poverty.”

Earlier this year, Casely-Hayford was one of seven women nominated to become the first female members of the Garrick Club, a London private members’ club which counts many legal professionals and members of the judiciary among its fold.

Speaking about the historic decision, Casely-Hayford said: “I’ve been to the Garrick a number of times for dinner or lunch, and it’s wall to wall carpeted with talent.

“I’m not saying that a group of people can’t form a club that’s just for them, if that’s what they want to do. But what I am saying is that the Garrick’s different because it has leading actors, leading lawyers and judges, all of whom are men. It’s important to consider the impact that camaraderie might have elsewhere.

“But it’s also to do with the fact that I’ve been incredibly thrilled when young people, who don’t necessarily come from a background that has a strong social network have said to me, ‘can you help me with something,’ or ‘can you give me some advice?’

“And I’m able to say, ‘I don’t actually know very much about that, but I know someone who does.’ If that’s a contribution I am able to make to their life, I think that I’d be happy with that.”

Casely-Hayford describes the position of Chancellor as “the world’s oldest glass ceiling,” pointing to the role’s 950 year-long history: “I think it would just be refreshing to look at somebody who’s different, but that’s not my asking for a free pass because of my gender and my ethnicity.

“I have been a Chancellor: I understand the symbolic and ceremonial aspects, I love and cherish the historic legacy, but I am also willing to push boundaries, test norms, and would champion those who want to do so within the university, whether it’s for the betterment of society, academe, or individuals, or even the environment.

“I hope I can bring all of that to make me, at least, in with a decent chance at becoming Oxford’s next Chancellor.”

Lady Elish Angiolini is a distinguished lawyer, having been Lord Advocate of Scotland from 2006 to 2011, and currently occupying the position of Lord Clerk Register. She has been prominent in the news recently as the chair of the Sarah Everard inquiry. Lady Angiolini is also a Pro-Vice-Chancellor of Oxford University and the beloved Principal of St Hugh’s College. Cherwell spoke to her in her office in St Hugh’s.

Cherwell: You were the first woman to hold the position of Solicitor General, the first woman to be Lord Clerk Register, and you’ve worked to modernise the courts and led on practices dealing with female offending. What would it mean for you to become the first female Chancellor of Oxford University in the 800 years of the position?

Angiolini: I was also the Lord Advocate, as I say in a conceited, ghastly way. But no, it would be lovely to be the first woman in the sense that it’s the right time – 800 years, come on guys. But I don’t think I would be happy being appointed because I’m a woman, and that was the only reason for it. That would be belittling. It’s about leadership skills, it’s about affection for the university, and its component parts: students, academics, fellows, administrative staff, all the people that make it such a unique place. I don’t consider myself standing at the threshold of history – that would be presumptuous; I might get three votes at the end of it. But it would be lovely for me because I’m retiring from St Hugh’s in September, and I love Oxford University, the city, and St Hugh’s. And it’d be lovely to add something to the University.

Cherwell: You became Principal of St Hugh’s in 2012, having been head-hunted by the college. What were your first impressions of Oxford? Were there any major surprises?

Angiolini: The only time I had visited Oxford before was when I came to see a play in Stratford: Coriolanus with Derek Jacobi, and we had a day out in Oxford. I’d applied to university in Scotland, and was the first in my family to do so. The idea of coming to Oxford would have been like going to the moon. But I took a trip down to visit a friend at Jesus College, and the city was so beautiful and totally different from anything I’d experienced. I immediately thought I’d love to come here – not for a second did I think it would be in this lofty role as a Head of a College, but life took over. Being here has been a real treat – its history, its built beauty. I wouldn’t say it’s a fairytale idyll by any means – it has its challenges – but it was an unexpected delight and it continues to be that.

Cherwell: How have you found the university work compares to your previous roles? Does your legal work feel very separate from your work in the university, and how have you balanced the two? 

Angiolini: When I applied to the post, it was made clear to me that the post wasn’t part-time, but that the Governing Body was keen for me to continue some of my extra curricular work, including my Inquiry work. This was attractive to me, as I wanted to maintain to some extent my career in law. This has been facilitated by the Governing Body, who have been hugely supportive.  I am currently chairing part two of the inquiry arising from the circumstances of the murder of Sarah Everard. The role of Principal is not 9-5. It also involves hosting events and dinners, which some might not consider work, but it certainly is! I think I’m a much more pleasant human being when I’m busy! 

Cherwell: As Lord Advocate, amongst other positions, you’ve been a public figure, with the media scrutiny that comes as a result. Have you managed to separate your work life from your personal one?

Angiolini: No, not really. When I was Lord Advocate, it was an intense role, as you’d imagine. There were all these criminal aspects, but also the system of deaths-investigation. So there was an aspect of sudden events taking place. One example was the attempt to bomb Glasgow Airport. I was in a bookshop in Edinburgh and I had to run up to the Scottish government’s headquarters while it was pouring with rain, and when I got there the man at the door wouldn’t let me in, because I looked like a waif with my hair and clothes soaked through. 

Cherwell: Over a distinguished career you’ve directed bodies and led reviews. What do you think has been your impact on the operations of the judicial system in the UK?

Angiolini: I did it along with a lot of other people, so I can’t take credit for it all!  There was a real consensus at that stage that there was a need for change. The way that witnesses were treated in the 1980’s lacked emotional intelligence and basic courtesy.  We made sure there was much better communication and greater flexibility, for example allowing vulnerable people and children to give evidence remotely. We also worked to drive people away from jail, finding alternatives to prosecution. So it was a very creative period in terms of prosecution practice. I was able to transfer some of that to the University when I arrived. As with all universities, there were issues with sexual misconduct. We didn’t really have a centre of support in the University, so with a small group we developed the sexual advice service for Oxford. A lot of that came from my background; the understanding that people need a safe place to disclose or seek help.

Cherwell: What impact do you think you’ve had as Principal of St Hugh’s? Are there things you wish you’d achieved? Do you see yourself more as a chair or a director?

Angiolini: I think more of a chair. I’d describe myself as the first among equals. I’m blessed with a very positive group of dedicated people who are dedicated to the college in the Governing Body at St Hugh’s. It has largely been a very enjoyable experience dealing with them. But of course, there are periods where you have dark times. Some students studying here at different times have passed away.  It was absolutely heart-breaking and affects the whole atmosphere in College. Likewise, others are ill and have difficulties. Parents might be unwell or they might have financial difficulties. There are real human life tragedies which happen. It’s not all gaiety as portrayed in some of our great epic dramas about Oxford (with people frollicking under the sunshine). You need to be alive to the struggle some students face and try to make the College a safe haven for students. They need to have support tailored to their individual needs. Frankly, most students are not aware of the breadth and more challenging nature of what  we have to deal with sometimes.

Cherwell: The position of Chancellor is largely ceremonial and symbolic. What do you think you could accomplish in the role?

Angiolini: I’ve read in some newspapers that some candidates have published ambitions which look like manifestoes! I am not presenting myself  as an individual  with a manifesto about what I want to do with Oxford. The role is about representing the University, welcoming senior academics, and being there as a listener for the people who really are dealing with the future of the University and its mechanics – the Vice-Chancellor, the Council and the Conferences of Colleges etc. Having huge affection for the place is also really important. I have really got to know the place, the nuts and bolts. I feel that I can give advice if it’s sought, but the worst thing you can do is be interfering. You also need to help with fundraising, which is an ever-present need, so we can widen opportunities to those who cannot afford to come here. For example, it’s much more affordable for Scottish students to stay and study in Scotland. I’m not suggesting I want to pack the University full of Scottish students, though… 

Cherwell: Some of the other Chancellor candidates, such as Peter Mandelson and William Hague, have been involved in explicitly partisan roles, as was Chris Patten, the now-departing Chancellor. Do you think that this political dimension to the face of an institution is a negative?

Angiolini: I think being ‘political’ with a small ‘p’ is an advantage – the skills that politicians gain are very useful, the diplomatic aspects and so on. I’ve never been a member of a political party, but I’ve worked with lots of politicians as a Minister. In my capacity as Lord Advocate I served two different governments. Normally the Lord Advocate leaves  with the outgoing government, but I was kept  on by the incoming government, much to my surprise. I got a lot of respect from politicians as my advice was based on the law and wasn’t political.  

Cherwell: Much controversy has been caused recently in the wake of campus protests, particularly in America, but also here. To what extent should university leaders take a stance on political and social issues?

Angiolini: The University is here to facilitate debate, freedom of speech, and thought, and that will include politics as well. This is a hugely significant educational institution – at least on our own papers, possibly the best in the world. You cannot substitute your thoughts for those of the collective. We need to accommodate that in a democracy. It’s not just  what  is appealing to you  but that which is uncomfortable as well. It’s absolutely right that we accommodate debate and protest where it’s peaceful and not harmful. We’re going through a moment of great sadness in the world. We need to ensure that as a university that we are kind and ensure our students and staff  are safe. But we must also allow people the freedom to express that which may not be acceptable to another, provided that it is within the law – and the law is a generous one; there aren’t that many exemptions. This is something universities have had to deal with for many many decades. There have been real clefts in views but that’s how it should be in universities.

Cherwell: Many students received the news of Chris Patten’s resignation with the reaction: what’s the University Chancellor? Should Oxford students care about the role and why?

Angiolini: It’s a bit remote from the everyday concerns of students because it is a high level of representation. But I think that the ceremonial aspect is fantastic and historic. Not everyone likes that element of it. They think it’s all nonsense – it’s frowned on as vanity. But as a Pro-Vice-Chancellor I’ve carried out the graduation ceremonies and you see the reaction of the families to the ceremony. As their child comes forward with the trumpets playing, you can see the amazing reactions of their families. Oxford has been doing this for centuries, and it connects us to thousands of graduates who have gone before us. 

Cherwell: Oxford is often perceived as a bastion of tradition and archaisms. Do you think that this is a fair presentation and or has Oxford changed and modernised with the times?

Angiolini: Oxford has wonderful old traditions which are preserved and valued and are great fun – and I think that’s often how you need to look at them. You don’t need to take them fully seriously, but some of them are wonderful. It also is a very forward looking University. It is an  outstanding international university in terms of its research and its academic endeavours. An academic in this College received an amazing international award at the weekend for her work, and this is happening all the time all over the University. So it’s ultra-modern in terms of its research. And not just in laboratories. If you look at its arts: the dramas which take place, the fantastic live performances, literature, poetry etc  It is not a staid place that takes itself too seriously at all times. It has some fabulous parties as well!  As reluctant as I am to admit to anything embarrassing, I love disco music. When the students are having bops, it’s very hard for me to resist the temptation to go along. And there’s May Day and all these other great traditional events. They seem esoteric to many before they get here, but when they do, they love them. And they aren’t compulsory – you can always sit in the library! 

Cherwell: What are your fondest moments of being in Oxford? And any favourite spots?

Angiolini: Well it’s not a surprise to say I love St Hugh’s – we have incredible gardens here and I have been along with my family very happy here for the last 12 years. There are lots of other beautiful colleges which I love popping into. My favourite places outside the University are North Parade – I love going to the market at the weekend, the shops and pubs as well as the convivial atmosphere. I also love Jericho – the cinema, walking up the streets, the terraced houses and thinking of the history of the city. These are the kinds of places I’m putting in my memory box. It’s such a wonderful place to be.