Baroness Jan Royall is a British Labour Party politician and currently, the Principal of Somerville College. She has been an MP, a member of the House of Lords, and Leader of the House of Lords. Cherwell spoke to her about her candidacy for Chancellor of Oxford University.
Cherwell: Being Oxford Chancellor is a curious job because in many ways it’s a figurehead, an honorary position more so than anything else. Why do you think that’s the next step in your career? Why is it that you want the job?
Royall: So as you know, I’ve been at Oxford for seven years, and I came here not really understanding the university. I didn’t come here as an undergraduate. And over that time, I’ve been able to better understand why this is a great university. And this might sound really bizarre, but I really esteem it. I’ve fallen in love with it in so many ways. I just think it is a fantastic university. And today, of course, for the ninth year running, we’ve become the top university in the world. Well, that is pretty damn good. It’s a good day to be being interviewed by a student newspaper. I’m very proud of that.
I’m also an insider. I’ve been living and breathing this place for a long time, and I think that that gives me a good understanding of the University, of its people, most importantly. That is, its students, its academics, its researchers, and its support staff. And I’ve got a notion of all the brilliant research that goes on. The teaching is phenomenal, but there’s also fantastic research, and it’s research that gives us the number one position in the world.
Yes, the Oxford Chancellor kind of is a support role. You’re not out there managing the University. I certainly would hate to do that, and I think the Vice-Chancellor does a brilliant job. But I think that the position has so many strengths that I would be delighted and privileged to be an advocate for the University. And still, there are some real and some perceived barriers, both in terms of trying to ensure that people from whatever background have the confidence to apply here if they’ve got potential, but there are also barriers, as we know, between the town and gown, and we’re breaking those down, but I’d really like to do some more of that, and I think the Chancellor can help with that.
Cherwell: Do you think there is a part or a feature of your upbringing, or particular experiences when you were younger that have shaped your politics today, or just in general, shapes the person you are today?
Royall: So I come from basically a working class background. I wasn’t poor by any means, but my dad was a chauffeur, and then had a corner shop, and then went on to do a social work course and looked after some kids, who used to be called ‘maladjusted’. My mum was a nursery nurse, and so I had a very kind of normal, very loving upbringing, but I was always aware of social injustices, I suppose. And I always wanted to bring about change.
When I was a kid, I didn’t have any confidence, and it was Girl Guides, actually, that helped give me confidence. But then when I went to university, I got more and more involved not in politics, per se, but I got involved in things like the Nicaragua solidarity campaign and anti-apartheid. So I came in from that angle, and then I got passionate about the European Union, and that’s what drove me into politics. I belonged to something called the young European left, and then I became a member of the Labor Party, and I’ve been in it ever since. I’ve always wanted to bring about change, because I think the world is in a perilous state at the moment, but there’s always been a need for change, and I’ve always wanted to help drive that change. And it’s always seemed to me that young people and education is where it all starts.
Cherwell: As a woman working in very masculine settings, in places like parliament, but in politics in general, how do you think your understanding of gender has been influenced by those experiences, and has that informed your perspective today?
Royall: It’s been hugely influenced. And there have always been women for me to look up to, such as Barbara Castle. I worked for Barbara for a long time, and she’s just this beacon of strength, and I thought, I want to be like her. And then there are people like Harriet Harman, just the most amazing women. And in Oxford, I’ve learnt more about the women, for example, at Somerville, like Janet Vaughan. But there are just incredible women in the world.
But there’s always been that injustice, in that women, for many, many reasons, haven’t been able to get to the top. They haven’t had their voices heard. There’s been so much, sometimes overt discrimination, but sometimes lack of confidence. And I’ve always wanted to be part of bringing about that change as well. And in the University, there are now, I mean, there are equal numbers of men and women students, which is great, but in terms of academics, there’s still not enough women academics, and certainly not enough women, academics in higher levels. Yeah. And it’s worse, I would say for black and ethnic minorities, absolutely.
Cherwell: Given Oxford does have this history of being a bastion of elitism and class power, how do you think you can reconcile the emancipatory view you have with tradition?
Royall: It’s perceived to be a bastion of elitism, and I know it used to be, but I have seen great changes in the University over the last seven years in terms of widening access and participation not only in this college, but across the University. That’s been a great joy. So we are breaking down those barriers. There are so many initiatives which are bearing fruit, one of which is the Astraphoria foundation year, and not enough colleges are participating in that at the moment. I’m very glad to be part of that, because we’ve got to always search for new ways of bringing people in and for breaking down those perceptions of elitism. Because honestly, I don’t think that elitism is a reality in Oxford anymore. It is a perception, and we’ve got to break down those barriers of perception.
Cherwell: What do you mean by seeing elitism as just a perception?
Elitism exists as a perception in terms of people applying to the University. I fully support student organisations like Class Act, because I know that for some students from nontraditional backgrounds, and certainly some who come from ethnic minorities, when they arrive, they feel uncomfortable. It’s getting better. In all colleges across the University, great efforts are being made to make a more welcoming environment. I think for a long time, access was getting better, but when people got here, we forgot that they needed support, and I think that’s changing.
Cherwell: What do you think the biggest challenge for students is once they are at Oxford? In what ways do you think the University can take action on this challenge?
Royall: Finance is a big issue for students. I think that colleges do a remarkable job in providing bursaries, and I’m very proud of what we do here at Somerville. We are one of the top providers of bursaries. So that’s important. I think the University, everybody in this University, or the advocates for the University, need to be making arguments in favour of a better deal for students, in a way, I completely accept that.
Tuition fees, I mean, they have been stagnant since, essentially, since 2012 that’s caused huge problems for the University, for the higher education sector, undoubtedly, they will have to go up with inflation, but that must mean the restoration of maintenance grants. And I would say that it should also mean that maintenance grants should be in addition to student loans, because that would really restore the local playing field.
Cherwell: You’ve said that you’re a passionate believer in the democratic values that university represents. And for that reason, I wanted to ask what would have been your response to student protests? How do you think Oxford as a university ought to exist to best protect freedom of speech, or else balance other interests that are at stake in issues of freedom of speech?
Royall: I think freedom of speech is fundamental in our democracy, including in our University. And I think that students, everybody in the University, should hear and should listen to all people from differing views. As long as it’s within the law, people should be open to hearing different views, even views which they find difficult. But I think that’s part of living in society. So I fundamentally believe in freedom of speech when it comes to protests and demonstrations. Demonstrations, a right to protest, that’s a fundamental right, but I think it has to be done carefully. I think that we have to be aware when we have protests of the way in which they’re conducted, because we don’t want to cause hurt to other people. I’m really, really worried still about antisemitism and Islamophobia, which have been on the increase for a long time, but especially since the abhorrent attacks by Hamas on seventh of October, and of course, the subsequent horrific wars in Gaza and now in Lebanon.
So we have to as a college, as a University, find ways of enabling people to bridge the divides, enabling people to listen to each other with respect to disagree agreeably, knowing that nobody’s going to agree. That’s okay if we disagree, but we’ve got to listen to other people’s point of view with respect.
Cherwell: You would be the first non-Oxford alumni to be Chancellor, since 1834 – the Duke of Wellington. But you’ve said that you think Oxford alumni can sometimes be misty eyed and lack objectivity…
Royall: I did say that. I really, really wish that I’d been to Oxford, okay, because I think it is the best sort of education. The tutorial system is extraordinary, and it gives you ,apart from the academic and scholarly input, it just gives you confidence. It teaches you to discuss, to debate, and to absorb information and then express yourself. And I think that’s brilliant.
So I suppose I’m jealous because I didn’t have such an education. But the fact that I didn’t have an Oxford education gives me a bit more clarity to be able to see it from the outside. What I find amazing is the relationship that alumni have with their colleges. I just think that’s extraordinary, and I love it. I admire it enormously. But for somebody who didn’t go to a collegiate university, the sort of relationships that have developed between alumni or between students and their tutors has my admiration.
Cherwell: So would you say not coming to Oxford is your USP?
Royall: I think it is a USP, yes. But I think my main USP is the fact that I’ve been here for seven years, living and breathing Oxford, and I think that gives you greater insight to the contemporary needs of the university and the future needs of the university.
Cherwell: In terms of balancing contemporary needs with the kind of past that Oxford has – I’m referring to its ties to imperialism and apartheid, for example – in what ways do you think Oxford should balance modernity and tradition? How can it remember its past without perpetuating those structures of injustice?
Royall: I think that many parts of the University are doing that very well. There are many discussions going on around the University about the injustices of the past and how we should consider them, think about them, and ensure that there’s nothing in our present and future that replicates those injustices. Those injustices are to be learned from, to be recognised, not to be hidden, but to be recognised and learnt from.
What I really like at the moment is the discussions going on in the museums about the various objects, for example, in Pitt Rivers, and you know, whether or not they should be returned. And I think that that’s a really healthy debate. And you know, when it comes to actual studying, I like the fact that in our library, for example, there are great sections of books now about the injustices. I think it’s important that people look at our history. History is not static. Yesterday was history. And so I think it’s right that we keep reevaluating our history, not changing our history. History is history, but we’ve got to keep reevaluating it and learning from it.
Cherwell: Going back to the Chancellor elections, it’s quite a unique election campaign in the sense that it’s a bizarre election platform where you have no opportunity to engage with your opponents, or formally present your policies. How are you running it, and how are you approaching the lead up to the election?
Royall: I’ve got a website. I’ve got some social media.
I’m doing much more on LinkedIn than I’ve ever done in my life before. I’ve always done a bit of X, and I kind of wish I wasn’t, because I can’t bear Elon Musk, but hey, it’s a tool for the moment. So I was getting to the point where I was thinking, I’m not going to use X anymore, but then I decided that for this campaign, it could be quite useful.
So I’m using social media and just talking to people. I know that many of the people to whom I speak to, certainly in Oxford, are quietly supportive, but understandably they don’t want to take a public position, and that’s fine. In terms of getting wider alumni to support me, I guess one of the best ways is to talk with people who you know support you, and then ask them to talk to other people to have a trickle down effect. But with an electorate of, I don’t know it’s supposed to be, like 29,000 plus alumni, that’s a hell of a lot of people to get to. I think name recognition is important. William Hague and Peter Mandelson have been interviewed on the Westminster programme on a Sunday night on Radio Four, and they’ve had no one else, so I’m going to try and get on there.
Cherwell: I’ve just got one final question, in comparison to these other candidates running for the chancellor position, why are you better than those candidates?
Royall: I’m better because I know Oxford and its people.
I think that one of the roles of the Chancellor is to be an advocate. I think I’ve got a record of being able to listen and to achieve consensus, not always sort of very visible consensus, but consensus behind the scenes. I’ve done that in various jobs, including as leader of the House of Lords, and so I think that I’d be very good at that. I think that I can do a splendid job.
However, having said that, there are some great candidates, and I think that the future of Oxford is secure under Irene Tracy and the people working in this great institution, and I’m sure that whoever is elected as chancellor, they will be very privileged, and they will do a fabulous job. But I’d be the best.
